Tuesday, February 17, 2009

Can we talk about important topics today, like this one:





Seriously, what the fuck?

94 comments:

Anonymous said...

She's scary. I hope the state takes those children and finds them homes with people who can love and take care of them.

Anonymous said...

Ah, leave it to the media to turn a normal-frumpy mommy-person into a faux-ethnic Angelina Jolie. Either that, or the original octo-mom was flat out replaced by a prettier impostor more palatable for a television audience. Creeeepy.

Lolo said...

She's well on her way to having a Presley face.

Denise Smith said...

Lolo- More like Michael Jackson.

Seriously. THIS IS MESSED UP.

Kwana said...

Seriously. I can't stop thinking about her. This must mean I'm a mess too, but she makes me crazy. I'm fine with the hacking up you face to look like Angelina. Cool if you've got the cash and the crazy to carry it. What got me was in her interview, and yep I watched every minute of it, was how she said she "took a gamble" with all the embryos. What? That is so awful. Gambling on life like that. What a whack job. And don't get me started on the doc.

Anonymous said...

Someone at my work yesterday called her "Octopussy"

Meghan/Blatant Animal-Related Idiocy said...

Did I seriously hear that TLC was trying to offer her a television show?

I don't understand the fascination with Jon and Kate Plus 8, and I DEFINITELY don't get this one.

It could be like a game show! Which Kid Gets to Eat Tonight?

Hey, doctor that did this? I'm looking at you, you hack.

LB said...

I must not be following her story nearly close enough. She got plastic surgery on her face as well as having 14 kids?

Anonymous said...

It doesn't take a PhD to figure out that this woman has a serious personality disorder. Her interview clearly showed that her thoughts are not based in reality. There is no way that one parent can safely and effectively take care of 14 children when 8 of them are premie infants. This woman is not looking five feet in front of her face and her children will pick up the tab for her bad judgement.

How could she not know that the money spent on plastic surgery or lip enhancement (whatever) would be taking funds away from the needs of her children. Pictures were posted yesterday of her leaving the hospital and sitting in a nail salon to get a french manicure!! All of this from a woman who knows she is under scrutiny by the media. The fact is "she doesn't care". It's all about her. If she cared, the way a normal parent cares, this would not have gotten so out of hand.

I speak as a seasoned mother of three children who are in college. My first were twins and I couldn't conceive of having time to take a shower on some days, let alone go out for a manicure! My children are 22, 22 and 19. I know what goes into raising children to maturity. It's a huge responisbility to turn out moral and decent adults who will contribute good to the world. It requires a lot (!!!) of money and attention. I can't imagine how this woman thinks she is going to be an effective parent. I fear that many of her children will get "lost in the shuffle" of everyday life. Taking care of their basic physical needs will require more than she can handle. Where does the nurturing come in??

As you can see, this is a very hot topic for me. Yes, I see that the doctor is partly to blame, but I wonder if he would have had a legal let to stand on if he refused her request to implant HER embryos. You don't "gamble" with something as serious as the innocent lives of children.

Whew!

Margaret, Virginia Beach

Anonymous said...

I don't know what to say about this lady. I feel sorry for her children. She loves them (you could clearly see that) but sometimes love just isn't enough, you need money to raise children as well.

She definitely has a problem with a need to be loved. I don't think she had all these kids because she wanted 14 kids, she wanted to feel needed. She definitely needs to seek help for that.

As for the Angelina Jolie thing. If some idiot on a msg board would have never mentioned it the media never would have drug it through the mud. She has big fat lips and high cheeks in her before pictures why wouldn't she still have them in her pictures now?

Anonymous said...

This woman is clearly mentally ill. Did you notice the odd smile she got when asked about her disabled children and the way she giggled when discussing her autistic child? I think she decided to have a brood of "wounded birds" to try to make her feel better about her own place in this world.

Anonymous said...

Woah woah woah, what is this? come on guys, this is America, land of the free remember. How is it possible a woman who wants to have lots of kids is getting more headlines than the over 2000 children that go missing in the US everyday. It is the right of any woman to have as few or as many children as she desires. End of.

Emily said...

ok - I'm willing to chalk up everything but the nose to lighting and makeup. A good pair of tweezers and some foundation go a long way. But there's clearly been a nose job in her past AND, having just watched Angelina Jolie giving an interview on Larry King, there are some mannerisms that Octo-mom stole from her, too.

But, as the PP said - you want to hack your face, whatever.

It was reprehensible (sp?) that she was allowed to have more than the first one or two children, given her financial situation. She would never have been allowed to adopt (maybe not even the first one) so why was she allowed to have in vitro?

But this is coming from a person who thinks it should be much harder than it is to become a parent.

Anonymous said...

People are upset about it because there's something terribly wrong with her and the situation she created!!!!!!!!! America the free or not, you don't get to have that many children (eight at one time) with the assumption that people are going to come out of the woodwork to take care of you and them. Thank you that someone finally mentioned her French manicure. I couldn't care less what she does to her face (nose, lips, tatooed eyebrows!) or fingernails, but it seems as if she was getting herself ready for her "public," so to speak. Lights, cameras, action!!! She brought it on, not the media! She has a publicist, helllooooo! And the doctor is just as responsible. I hope the state of CA sues the living shit out of him for what it's going to cost them.
I'm furious. The nation is falling apart because people want what they want no matter. Selfish, selfish, selfish. It's just the epitomy of what's wrong!

Lolo said...

I'm content with mocking her bad surgery, her bad manicure and her choice to turn her vagina into a clown car. The other stuff, not so much now that the villagers have decided to threaten her with bodily harm.

Lucinda said...

No, I cannot talk about this. This woman is a freak and the fact that nothing has been done is totally fuct. Where in the world is Child Services?????

Anonymous said...

This woman exhibits symptoms of M√ľnchausen syndrome by proxy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome_by_proxy

Her children have health problems resulting from her intentional acts (ironically, the very act of bearing them). It's a bit different in that she's not poisoning them or directly inflicting injury. But in the end it is the same: The goal is need fulfillment and attention for the mother.

Cynthia said...

I have some experience here on this, I was a fertility patient when we tried to concieve our son (now an awesome 3 year old). On one of our first attempts on Clomid it worked too well and I had 9 (yikes) embryo's. I was told by the doctor, under no uncertain terms, that I was to have absolutely no sex for 72+ hours because the risks were too high for extreme multiples. At the time I remember being so sad (and highly hormonal) that I had to wait another month, but am so glad I had a doctor who was looking out for my best interest!

Decorina said...

Gad, she is curiously fascinating I agree. Kind of like a train wreck. But come on, it is a uterus not a clown car.

Anonymous said...

At least the kids will have each other.

Zelda said...

Medias need that kind of 'interlude ' to cut on bad news. This is the only reason of being on national TV.

Anonymous said...

I am so disturbed by this. She has no job and hasn't had one for several years, she has 6 children already, three of which have problems AND she's on public assistance; yet she has the money to get invitro again and produce 8 more children???? This is much worse than someone on welfare getting pregnant to get more welfare - this is someone on welfare who PAID to get pregnant and then gets more assistance. And if she gets book/TV/movie deals I'm going to throw up. Her children should be taken away from her. She couldn't take care of the 6 she already had and she intentionally got pregnant again and intentionally implanted 6 or more embryos.. it's just crazy and irresponsible.

Anonymous said...

I bet this woman has chalkboard paint in her kitchen.

-Chase

red.door.read said...

she is a space cadet from planet angelina. people from this planet do not understand her.

Anonymous said...

Creepy creeperson!

Its one thing for a woman to have as many children as she wants NATURALLY! The doctors should be thrown in jail and forced to foot the bills for this mess. We're in a friggin recession and this wack job doctor is allowing some trashy welfare mom to get fertility treatment for 8 embryos? WTF? Now the state of CA, which is struggling financially, is stuck footing the bill?

Shit, I have $150k in student loans, perhaps my state will foot my bills... its my right to get a degree, and honestly I cannot afford to pay for it right now-

Those doctors need to foot the bill. The tax payers have been screwed over plenty- and we need to stop the medical community from performing these unnatural perversions!

Iheartfashion said...

She's disturbing on every possible level.

Love + Marriage said...

My sister and I can't wait for the John and Kate Plus Eight spin-off.

John Minus Nine.

Seriously, who would sign up for that?

Rachel said...

I agree with Anon #4 - this lady most definitely has some sort of personality disorder.

But here are my problems with all this brew-ha-ha:

1)Her own mother!!! If I were her, and it bothered me so much, I would stop supporting her.

2) B-S! Bull Shizz that you can truly care for and nurture 14 kids every single day all by yourself.

3) If you want to go get your lips done (which I think is what she did), that's fine. And if you want to save up your money for in-vitro, that's also fine. BUT DO NOT DO THIS WHILE LIVING IN YOUR MOTHER'S HOUSE AND ACCEPTING FOOD STAMPS!! Obviously, her mother did not teach her "needs" from "wants" very well.

4) My biggest problem, however, is the fact that she's all over the news programs EVERY.SINGLE.DAY. Okay, one interview, fine. But every morning for a week on "Today", AND a Dateline special??? Why doesn't Ann Curry just point and laugh at her, since that is what it's all about. It's time to cover more important and interesting news.

By the way, I wonder if Nadya is hoping that she'll find her own Brad Pitt out of all this?? ;-)

desiree@lookiloos said...

This really bugs me. Food stamps...6 children (2 with disabilities) then back to get more. I've got 4 including a set of twins and I'm with Margaret from Virginia Beach there is not way one woman could do all this. Love is enough...how does love put food in all 14 of those bellies! That doctor should have his head examined as well!

Anonymous said...

I'm with Cynthia. I also had infertility & used assistance (IUI+drugs) to conceive my child. My Doc warned me about selective reduction & proceeding w/my IUI when I had 5 mature, unfertilized eggs. With IVFm the eggs are already fertilized. To put in 6 is CRAZY & risky to all.

I totalyly believe she had her lips done & the nose too. The cheekbones look similar enough to me. I agree with a PP that she seemed to mimic Angelina too much & there was a report she had been writing Angelina for over a year? Not sure if that was proven or not, but soooo creepy!

Cathy said...

The obvious answer is regulation. However, none of us really want the government regulating and restricting our health care options. We want good doctors to willingly and ethically follow good medical guidelines.

I have fought for female reproductive rights since high school. These include a sexually active female’s right to contraception, regardless of her age, financial ability to pay, and without parental permission. They include the right to legally and safely terminate a pregnancy. They include the right for women to seek help having children via surrogate mothers, fertility treatments, adoption, etc. I don’t want my government restricting the number of children I am legally allowed to have – we’ll leave that to the Chinese government.

But I do want my doctors and medical accreditation organizations to police themselves, to offer the best medical advice and treatment available to all. That doesn’t mean implanting 6 embryos in a woman with 6 six children who has stated she will not consider selective reduction.

I’m sad to say, it was the well intended legislation in the early 90’s that required fertility clinics to publish their “hit rates” that has led to immoral IVT practices by some doctors. It has resulted in a "more is better" culture.

It looks like a mentally disturbed mom and a greedy fertility doctor have caused the perfect storm. I pray that the solution is that he loses his medical license, the clinic closes, and she gets the help she needs. Sorry the CA tax payers, it's for the kids now.

We don’t really want “laws” that tie us down to medical formulas. i.e. 2 parents + six figure income = option to implant 3 embryos… else you only get to implant one.

Shame shame shame on that doctor.

Anonymous said...

In no way shape or form am I saying she is not an idiot, but the pictures from me holding my newborn verses a couple weeks (even days) are vastly different. Thank you Jesus.

Elizabeth said...

I think it's terrible that this woman's insanity is putting a bad face on:

a. Motherhood. Seriously- she and Angelina both- it's not a game, ladies.

b. Infertility treatments. The whole point is to provide ONE healthy child to a family that cannot conceive on their own. All this bullshit about the treatments always causing multiple births is just that- bullshit. The percentages of multiple births are getting lower and lower, and the treatments are more and more successful. This woman had no excuse for going overboard.

c. Jon & Kate Gosselin. They weren't hoping to have 6 babies at a time for attention and "to be loved"- they were shocked, but did not believe in reduction. All of their children are extemely healthy, happy, and NORMAL- and they have the means and the love to provide them with a comfortable lifestyle (in a huge house, without government assistance). I've raised my eyebrows at their decision before, but there's no comparison between their happy big family and the misery that this woman is inflicting on not only her children, but also her parents who support them.

Anonymous said...

This is why I don't have cable. Most of the time, I'm able to avoid this whole media obsession with pitiful, sad, train-wreck figures like this catastrophe octuplet lady here and Brittney Spears, both of whom are obviously mentally ill and just really fucking incredibly stupid on top of that. I'm happy to say that I am unfamiliar with this story, and that is a relief. I've been busy raising two children, working full time, and reading the New Yorker.

In conclusion, the doctor needs his license revoked. He should also be hanged. If the state of California is paying for shit like this, no wonder they are bankrupt. The kids will pay the ultimate cost. Child and protective services will intervene at some point, but it may be too late. They are going to have a hard row to hoe. All 14 of them.

And Chase, or, Anon 11:40, I'd bet that she DOESN'T have chalkboard paint in her goddamn kitchen!

big boy said...

We have dogs.

Fear of Styling said...

That is amazing - she does resemble Angelina Jolie - I never saw that until the pics were all lined up. I just don't understand the thought process behind this woman - why does she not make a practical decision given what nature and science has created and let other childless couples adopt some of the children?

Mary Ellen said...

You single city gals with your "careers" and your high heels could take a lesson from this young lady. She understands what a fulfilling life motherhood is. I for one admire her generosity.

Tara.Fields said...

There are so many snotty/cliche things for me to say about this likening it to breeding animals, like "child services? More like ASPCA for over-breeding" and "you need a license to have a dog, but anyone can have an IVF litter," but what' really important to say here is that "turning her vagina into a clown car" is the funniest thing I've heard in awhile.

Anonymous said...

i still want to know how shes paying for it
and PAID FOR THE FACE

Anonymous said...

As Borat would say, her vagine is like wizard sleeve.

Anonymous said...

Mary Ellen Sweetie,

Uhhh.....no career, city girl here (as if that has anything to do with this subject. Sheesh!). I consider myself the last of a dying breed. I have been a stay at home mom (whatever that means) for the last 23 years. Motherhood is very fulfillling, I agree. The dispute here is not "motherhood", rather a "mother" (and I use this term loosely)who has given birth, through artificial means, to 14 children. This woman has no job, no spouse or partner, and no concept of how to support her situation.

Mary Ellen (put the crack pipe down, dear), this is about the sheer number of innocent children being born into an impossible situation. Impossible without the aid of welfare, aid, etc. All of this from a woman who appears to have had some type of surgical enhancement and who willingly stated that she saved the money to have her IVF implantations. This case is certainly bizarre. You don't see this? What if every mother felt like this woman did, that shes should be alllowed to breed at will, any number of children she wants, all the while expecting the state to pay for it. That's not a responsible parent. My children have been indeed fulfilling. So much so that I often wish I had "just one more". However the reality of raising them and being able to afford their needs financially and nurture each of them individually made us decide to stop at three. Sure, it's a personal choice.

What's worse is the reports of how "religious" she is. Big red flag for me, sorry. God helps those who help themselves. My experience entitles me to have an opinion as to what it means to actually parent and raise a child to maturity. This chick has no clue.

Apparently you don't either. Your comments offered nothing to the discussion and smacked of ignorance. Look up the word "generous" in your middle school dictionary.

On a final note, I'll say that the Octomom appears to have the "scarlett O"hara attitude". As for how to raise and take care of her litter? She'll think about that later.

Margaret, Virginia Beach

Anonymous said...

To Margaret from Virginia Beach-
What you wrote was perfect.
Why the heck didn't YOU run for President?
You are articulate, level-headed and moral.
Your children are clearly blessed to have you as their mom.
Kudos.
- Scott

Renovation Therapy said...

the uterus clown car comment made me spit my tea out...hysterical!!

mary said...

This woman's face is of relatively no importance. The real problem lies with the doctor who on multiple occasions implanted innocent embryos into someone who was unfit to support or raise them. This doctor should have his medical license suspended, if not worse. Where is the California Dept. of Social Services?

Anonymous said...

John & Kate + 8 is one thing. The Duggars are another. I agree with nearly everyone, and especially Anon 10:39 - Mundchausen by Proxy syndrome totally popped into my head as well. "Me me me! Look at me! I had 8 kids at once, ain't it great???" This is not the way you work through "feeling alone" during your childhood. I feel horrible for the kids and the poor overworked grandmother. God help them all, but as it stands, looks like WE will be the ones helping them with a handout.

Anonymous said...

She is nuts. Plain and simple. I agree that the doctor needs his license revoked. Or he needs to be put on the birth cert. as the father so he can pay child support for the kids and all their medical bills. Seriously, the doctor needs to be punished, this might be the best way.
She is an attention seeker. She did this for fame and in hopes of fortune. I hope no one gives her TV deal/book deal/movie deal out of this and if they do I pray the American people are smart enough to boycott it. Scary shit.

David said...

Mary Ellen, you can't be serious. And if you are, then I'm holding you responsible for mom jeans and minivans. Oh, and my mother who is retired after 30 years of teaching might have an issue or two with you as well.

To whoever said she was looking for her own Brad Pitt, do you know a man who would sign up for a gig like that? I know men who won't date a woman with one child (a whole other issue) much less a herd. She has virtually guaranteed she will never have a mate.

Industrial-strength crazy, that's all this is.

tracey said...

I am desperate for another child, but feel I have waited too long. Let's give her a break. She wants children (who are we to say how many is too much... is it 6,7,14?), she has support from her parents, and now she will probably make enough money through this publicity to look after them financially. Is the Chinese policy of one child per couple better? 14 children may not be for all of us, but who are we to judge? I'm also offended by the disabled children comments - siblings are probably the best thing for them!

1egit said...

When I heard about the octuplet mom having what is it 6 more kids at home? i was SHOCKED. Then i found out she "didnt" have plastic surgery to look like A.Jolie.

Wowww creeepy.

I must say, this is a very important topic. I mean, she has a PUBLICIST. It's eerie and f'cking weird.

Anonymous said...

Who are we to judge? We're the people who will pay for this woman's idiocy. This is a phenomenally selfish woman, and that severe self-absorption is a clear indication of some kind of psychosis. She can't provide the care and nurturing these 14 children need. She created them to get attention for herself. She had plastic surgery to get attention for herself. It's not about the babies at all. It's all about her.

Anonymous said...

For all those complaining about having to pay for her children: Let's start talking about welfare
reform. Welfare started off as a temporary means of assistance. Now it is the ONLY means of support for many people.

This woman has also spoke of going back to school to get a counseling degree (ironic considering counseling may have prevented her current situation.) I guess we will be footing the bill for that too!

Jill said...

I think she has an Angelina Jolie fixation.

hello gorgeous said...

Lolo cracks me up.

I don't really know the entire story because I have refused to watch the media circus. It's exactly what $he'$ counting on.

Who comes out of the hospital with a publicist after giving birth? And those nails? First of all, if I see one more goddamned bad French manicure, I will scream. Secondly, well, there is no secondly.

Anonymous said...

I am freakin shocked by how many people-
A. commented
b. Are so morally superior!

Seems weird, she needs help, but man, go look in the mirror, people. Spend your time working on YOU. Really sad.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 6:04: And you felt the need to be morally superior about all of the folks being morally superior here? Want to borrow my mirror?

Lolo said...

Actually I am morally superior.

I don't squirt out babies without ascertaining the probability that they'll have food and shelter without being pimped out for others to gawk and judge. See? Not a very high bar at all. It's an easy game and we can all play along at home.

And guess what? You might be morally superior to me. Once again, the bar's not very high at all. For example, I don't vacuum every day. I swear. In front of my very own children. I have snarky thoughts like "well, if God meant for you to have a gajillion babies at a time, then why didn't he make it so that you could conceive?"

See? I am a bad person, just not quite as icky as someone who expects that TLC is going to rain down monies on my freakishly large circus of a homelife.

Suzanne said...

To all those who ask who are we to judge how many children is too many: We are sane, responsible people who know what it takes to raise one child, let alone fourteen, that's who. It is not moral superiority to think this woman is ill-equipped to handle fourteen kids; it's common sense. And what mother in her right mind expects (or worse, plans) to support kids from publicity revenue generated because of how "unusual" her family is?

As for the French manicure: get those noxious toxic glues away from preemies. I can't believe the hospital staff didn't say anything.

Anonymous said...

Did anybody happen to hear her mention, in the Anne Curry interview, that she's using student loans at the moment to pay for this? Did I misunderstand?

And this is why it matters -- she CAN NOT take care of those children, it is NOT humanly possible. And there could be nothing worse than putting those children into the Foster Care system, period -- PERIOD!!! But that's probably what's going to happen. That's why I care!

As to her surgically, tatooed enhanced face and French manicure, this is not someone whose priority is her children. The last thing I'd be thinkin' about with six children at home to take care of and eight more in intesive care in the hospital, is my frickin' fingernails! How can some of you not get that?

First thing I told my husband is "she has a form of M√ľnchausen, without a doubt."

Someone should have intervened!

Anonymous said...

I have four kids. I think this situation is a tragedy, and it seems clear she is not all there.
But that does not make trashing this woman and situation with oh-so-clever remarks any more acceptable.

I guess misery loves company.

Anonymous said...

It's not that bizarre a situation. I think that the death threats that your neighborhood vigilante is sending to her and her family should actually be the topic of conversation.

kristin said...

I think Cathy's comment is great.

While I wouldn't make octomom's decision in a million years and think she is a crazy baby-collector (I think Angelina Jolie probably is too, so I am amused by the resemblance and the somewhere-reported infatuation), I also strongly disagree with the notion that people shouldn't BE ALLOWED to bear children if 1.) they are "too poor," or 2.) they are "crazy." I think that people should have the right to decide to or to not bear children, and we as a society just have to become involved in their family if there is neglect, abuse, or another safety risk to the children. When we get involved, we should do so with the intent to reunite the family safely as is required by law. Until all efforts to reunite the family in a safe way have been exhausted, we should not take away people's parental rights. I say parental rights, not reproductive rights, because they are two separate things.

What would taking away reproductive rights look like? Taking her uterus out. Taking her ovaries out. What we did to all those "demonic welfare- and child-abusing mothers" in the 90s, making her choose between Norplant or welfare, Norplant or jail time. Raping her. Forcing her to conceive. Keeping her from using birth control if she wants it. All of these methods are barbaric and unconstitutional.

Instead, we should seek out ways to provide education for people so they can make the birth control decisions themselves. Let's not forget that our nation has a strong history of denying reproductive rights to and medical malpractice against minorities and people with disabilities, and so we will have to overcome general distrust in order to provide this education. A lot of generations have been fucked over by people more powerful and greedy than they, and it will take a lot of work to make it right. A good step that is applicable to this case would be having responsible doctors.

As for the argument, "what if every women did this," I have to say that is just a dumb and pointless thought experiment. If everyone did it, then who could make the decision of who could and couldn't have children? But as it is, most people don't do this. However, if we interfere with this woman's reproductive rights, then we set a dangerous precedent that can easily be used to affect you, your daughter, your son, me, or anyone else. I'd rather let this crazy mom bear her children one or two at a time (no greedy doctors giving her a litter all at once), keep a watchful eye out, and get the court involved if need be. If I have to pay more in taxes, so be it. It's better than having someone else make my reproductive choices for me.

s. said...

Thanks, Cathy 3:08. You stated it far better than I could.

I am terrified that since so many folks at every end of the political spectrum are disgusted by this (as I am) that it could spark some very hurtful "clamp downs" that will further complicate the lives of thoughtful, sane women hoping to get all manner of reproductive help from thoughtful, sane doctors.

I worry this is featuring so prominently in the news because Americans - both left and right - are itching for a backlash against women's reproductive rights. Highlighting one crazy, sad, irresponsible female will probably lead to tighter restrictions for the rest of us. Be afraid.

Anonymous said...

Kristin,

Kumbaya.........Kum, fucking, by, fucking, YA!

This lady is a whack job and you don't see this? We are not talking about "reproductive rights". Rather the absurdity on so many levels with this particular case. People, like this Octomom, are always on the lookout for a "loophole". Just the right lawsuit could set her for life. It's become a very litigious society and the "doctor" that everyone wants to blame (at least blame more so than the nut job mom) may have had quite a court battle should he have refused to implant her embryos. Legally, he would not be allowed to pass judgement on the number of children she already has. He would have no legal grounds to investigate her financial situation. I'm not defending him, just stating the facts about what he could have been up against.

At the very least.........the very f'ing LEAST, this woman should have been required to undergo counceling and evaluation before these implantations were done. Since the counceling would have uncovered the fact that Octomom was against any selective reduction, there should be some sort of limit on the number of embryos implanted at one time. This simply protects both the mother and the babies. No question that it is very risky for a woman to carry that many babies.

Of course I don't think that our reproductive decisions should be mandated. I do however believe that when one expects the state to pay their entire way (ie having no source of income, no partner, etc.) they should be held to different standards. This pregnancy was no "accident". This woman is not in any "bind" that she didn't put herself willingly into. She's expecting a bail out of some kind.

This is a case that defies logic. That's why the interest is there.

Bottom line, she is unfit on far too many levels.

Margaret, Virgina (again!)

Kristin said...

Margaret,

You are talking about reproductive rights, though. We're both on the same page that this woman is bonkers, but your solution to prevent this situation infringes upon reproductive rights.

Because one crazy person decides to have too many kids, and one doctor gives them to her, everyone has to get psychological clearance to get IVF? Everyone has to be okay with selective reduction before they get IVF? People have to be not-poor to get IVF? No. Absolutely not. That interferes with MY reproductive rights.

Rather, when child services takes this particular case to court, and they eventually will, the court will order a psych eval on her. The psych eval will probably recommend counseling to address specific issues. It may diagnose her with something where she will need to take psychotropic meds. The court will order her to do counseling and take the meds. The court will probably also order her to obtain and maintain suitable housing, complete parenting classes, etc., etc. She will have half-a-dozen professionals watching over her, evaluating her, and giving their findings to the court. She'll have to be stable, not have any breakdowns, act like a normal person. If a kid has developmental issues, she'll have to prove that she can parent that child. If she does well, she'll keep the kids. If she doesn't, the kids will be adopted out. Hopefully to family, maybe to strangers. The case will be completely tailored to her issues, and it won't have an impact on whether you or I can conceive and deliver a baby.

As for your concern that she will "be set for life," if she sues the doctor and wins a malpractice suit, so be it. Hopefully he will have fucked up somewhere to lose. If that isn't fair to the doctor, then the malpractice system needs to change. We don't need to change the system that guarantees us the right to decide to have children or not.

If she honestly gave birth to all of these children so she can get state assistance, then she's totally crazy and that will be caught in the child welfare case. If she remains crazy, SHE WON'T GET THE KIDS AND THEN WON'T BE ABLE TO MILK THE SYSTEM. I can't believe that welfare is what people are concerned about, anyway. This bizarre woman's circumstance is being used, like S. said, to stage a backlash against reproductive rights. For crying out loud, people are poor and need help. The people that milk welfare are few and far between. Most people lack skills and job opportunities to pay for themselves and honestly require assistance to live. Many old problems keeping people from working have been solved. For example, Social Security has a Ticket to Work program that encourages disabled people to work to the best of their ability without losing their medical benefits. A lot of people who chose to not work now do. What we need is more vocational training, job coaching, and job opportunities that will help people.

That being said, where are the financial standards going to be placed when deciding when people can have children? Do we say that people need to be gainfully employed before they can get IVF? For that matter, do they need to be gainfully employed to deliver a child at all? Should we mandate abortion if pregnant people are on welfare, birth control if people are unemployed? How do we determine if people are having babies to get a paycheck?

In an ideal world, nobody would be crazy like this woman and we wouldn't have this problem. But this isn't an ideal world. I think the current course of action, that is, taking care of the problem after-the-fact through a child welfare case, is preferable to dictating how and when people can have children.

Anonymous said...

I haven't followed this in detail, but she strikes me as wanting to get into some kind of reverse-Truman Show.

I think a lot of people would really get into watching this woman and her children 24/7.

Not me, but enough people to keep one of a zillion channels profitable.

Maria said...

oh i am obsessed with this story. it just keeps getting better and better. i think she is insane and wants to be angelina jolie. i also think that her father is the donor.

Anonymous said...

Kristin,

With regards to the post I wrote directed to you, I apologize for the sarcasm. After rereading both of your posts, it's obvious that you have given careful consideration to this subject and have experience to back up your views on womens reproductive rights. I admit that I have no experience outside of being a mother. You brought up so many good points in your last comment. I clearly see you point. To hold up this particular case as an example to make "rules" with respect to a woman's right to decide her own reproductive issues, would be to create even more chaos. I get it now and appreciate your opinions.

Another thing that has been bothering me about my own comments is the real innocense of all these children involved. Not just the preemie babies, but the other precious 6 at home missing their mom. I don't doubt for one minute that these children were wanted and loved. I only doubt the abiltiy of one person to physically, emotionally and financially give them what they need and deserve. I am angered at her attitude and the fact that she had the kids first and then wants to figure out how to handle it all later. I think this mother is trying to fulfill some unmet needs of her own by having so many children. I don't think that she is responsible or accountable at all. I am angry on behalf of all the couples who are playing life as parents in the true best interest of their children. I'm angry on behalf of those tiny little infants who need a parent in the "drivers seat" for their every need.

I will say this about Angelina....she definitely has the means to support the children that she has. She and her partner appear to be parenting thier 6 together and they can afford the help needed to deal with a large family. Six is one thing.........14, quite another.

Thanks for a great post Kristin.

Margaret, Virgina

Anonymous said...

Oh....one more thing (LOL!!!!) what about the sperm donor dad who produced his stuff into a jar knowing that this crazy woman was going to be impregnated yet again!

Yeah, what about that spermy dude!

He's another hot mess!

Margaret

Anonymous said...

If she had 14 dogs or cats instead of children they'd call her a hoarder and rehome the offspring.

She's the reason straights are nicknamed breeders.

Penelope Bianchi said...

I cannot wait to read these tomorrow.....or sometime.....I just had to answer.......

I think the doctor who did this......should be financially responsible for the raising......rearing.....and educating all of these 8 babies he helped create.

but then he would declare bankruptcy....and want a federal bailout

never did I think I would become cynical....this makes me sick.

Penelope

what's with anonymous.....anyway? don't get it.......you can call me Penny for short!

Penelope Bianchi said...

Now I couldn't miss the last one......on my way to bed!
How funny is that?

Anonymous.........said......."that's why 'straights' are nicknamed 'breeders'"?

Holy cow!

I think that is just irresponsible letting your tongue and type run off.

I think that sort of stuff should be stricken.

this woman has nothing to do with "straights"!
Would you like some random comment about "gays"?

anonymous (all of them) should be banned in my opinion......cowards don't stand behind their opinions.....and they can say anything ..and have no responsibility for any of it......yuk
Oh well....


Happy day to everyone!

the octuplets mom will become a burden to all of us.....and again.....I think the doctor should have to provide support....education...and college education. She never could have done it without him!

I hope one will invent the cure for cancer!
Penelope

Penelope Bianchi said...

I have just one more suggestion......now that I have seen the pictures of this deranged mother.

The doctor should have to support most of it......the medical bills....the tuition.......even college.....for all eight....

but all plastic surgery bills need to be sent to Angelina and Brad Pitt.......for the mother.....and all children....believe......me.....there will be many!

Penny

Anonymous said...

"Rather, when child services takes this particular case to court, and they eventually will, the court will order a psych eval on her. The psych eval will probably recommend counseling to address specific issues. It may diagnose her with something where she will need to take psychotropic meds. The court will order her to do counseling and take the meds."

Hmmm. Court ordered meds. Hmmm.

Doctors have every right to questions patients, before any elective surgery, as to their motivations and deny if they feel it necessary. This doctor had every right to say "no," I'm not going to implant eight embryos. It was elective, not something she had to do to survive. No doctor is required to perform an elective procedure just because a patient wants or demands it.

kristin said...

Anon, the court would order her to comply with the psychological or psychiatric treatment that is recommended in order for her to have custody of her children. If she's diagnosed as psychotic and isn't taking her anti-psychotics, or if she has a personality disorder and makes decisions dangerous to the kids and is not doing the recommended therapy, the court won't let her have the kids because that is a huge safety risk. Naturally, this make-believe court case is contingent upon there being jurisdiction in the first place. Maybe she'll be a fine mother and she won't go to court. Maybe there won't be any good legal reason for the court to order a psych eval. I personally doubt it because I've seen psych evals ordered on far-less crazy seeming people, but I also don't live in California and the child welfare system varies dramatically from state to state. Given the publicity of this case, though, I think California child welfare will be cautious and put up a big fight to make sure that these children are safe. It would be shit-storm on the agency if something happened to those kids. There are a lot of variables, but I have enough broken faith that the court will be able to address the details of this case if and when issues arise.

As for my own snarky comment on Angelina, Margaret, I actually really like her and Brad, and I am pulling for them. However, I've met a lot of baby-collectors, rich and poor, and a baby-collector is a baby-collector no matter the size of the bank account. Rich ones just have enough money to hire people to help when poor people can't. But quite possibly Angelina won't turn into Mia Farrow, and she and Brad will just have a decent-sized bunch of happy, healthy, and adorable kiddos.

Anonymous said...

Time to talk about her new house?

http://dlisted.com/node/30795

Anonymous said...

Someone wrote:
"I am so disturbed by this. She has no job and hasn't had one for several years, she has 6 children already, three of which have problems AND she's on public assistance; yet she has the money to get invitro again and produce 8 more children???? This is much worse than someone on welfare getting pregnant to get more welfare"

First of all, the "getting pregnant to get more welfare” is a myth. Sadly, that cliche is fostered over and over in our society, mostly by the GOP, so people assume that it is true. Studies have debunked that many times.

Secondly, her medical history is protected by HIPAA laws, and the privacy of her financial history is protected by the Constitution...so the fact that people are assuming she is mentally ill without any type of psychiatric evaluation is irresponsible and whether or not she can or cannot afford in-vitro or plastic surgery all while receiving public funds is not anyones business.

This is highly ridiculous and an attempt to divert the easily distracted public like you from the real issues of welfare irresponsibly like billions of dollars of your taxes going to CEO's to pay for their reckless behavior.

But you keep right on being disturbed by this irrelevant
situation!

Decs said...

It's possible everyone is disturbed by both. Let us know when you need help getting off your high horse.

Anonymous said...

"All of their children are extemely healthy, happy, and NORMAL- and they have the means and the love to provide them with a comfortable lifestyle (in a huge house, without government assistance). I've raised my eyebrows at their decision before, but there's no comparison between their happy big family and the misery that this woman is inflicting on not only her children, but also her parents who support them."

So based on your statement I can infer that you believe that if you are "well off" have as many babies as you want. But if you are poor receiving public assistance, there should be a cap of number of births?

And I love how you assume that the family and children in some ignorant reality show that you only see small segments of their family's real life are "extemely healthy, happy, and NORMAL," but this woman is living in misery and inflicting misery upon her children.

Anonymous said...

"However the reality of raising them and being able to afford their needs financially and nurture each of them individually made us decide to stop at three. Sure, it's a personal choice."

Hmm, I think three is too many...Let's see, did or do you send your kids to public school? Do you use the post office, law enforcement, fire department. If you utilize any of the above, then I deem you quite irresponsible; you should be RESPONSIBLE and be able to afford private schools and private law enforcement/security rather than letting someone else foot the bill.

Anonymous said...

Someone wrote:
"I do however believe that when one expects the state to pay their entire way (ie having no source of income, no partner, etc.) they should be held to different standards. This pregnancy was no "accident". This woman is not in any "bind" that she didn't put herself willingly into. She's expecting a bail out of some kind"

So then you are saying that "responsible" people like yourself should be free to procreate; yet her "having no source of income, no partner" subjects her to her medical and financial records being reviewed before having children.

And what is with the "no partner?"
In your narrow-minded limited thinking, single parents should be scrutinized before having children?

Anonymous said...

"I think the current course of action, that is, taking care of the problem after-the-fact through a child welfare case, is preferable to dictating how and when people can have children."

Uh, like you scouring over her medical and financial records to see if she is mentally fit and can afford every child she has. Good call, "we" should not dictate before, let's just call CPS and have the children removed.

Anonymous said...

"It's possible everyone is disturbed by both"

It is possible, but doubtful.

Jenny said...

Ho hum. Some surgery, some make up, and she's just like any real (?) or faux celebrity. Whatever. She can hack up her face if she wants (I'm with other post-ers on that). But it's irresponsible to have so many children at once. I'm fascinated that some post-ers here talk about that as an aspect of American freedom. The plastic surgery, maybe. But the multiple, high-risk births of eight vulnerable, dependent children? You can have the freedom fo f987 up your own life, but not that of children.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous who just wrote the previous comments. All of them. Ha! You made several poor attempts to defend this crazy Octowoman. We're not here to discuss regulating the number of children a woman can have. I believe this topic was created to gather opinions on this particular situation. Not a large amount of children in one family. Rarely do you see such lucicrocity on so many levels. This Angelinawannabe is pushing every envelope and you can't see it. She's also a media whore. We're talking about HER, not trying to make this into some political discussion. And YES, she is going to require more than just herself to take care of 14 children. So Partner, Helper, Spouse, Chump, whatever, this woman needs help. Single people probably shouldn't have 14 children by themselves. Didn't your own mother teach you anything?? I think YOU are a troll and just looking for an argument. I laughed my ass off at how ignorant you are. This situation is disturbing. Remember we are only talking about Nadia, not the whole freaking reproducing world. Piss off!

Anonymous said...

Kristin,

If you really believe that people who bilk welfare are few and far between then a whole bunch of us have some swampland to sell you.

I was a social worker and believe me, there are THOUSANDS of people abusing the welfare system. In many cases it has been going on for generations because the children grow up thinking welfare is an acceptable means of support.

Pamela Terry and Edward said...

Ick, ick, ick! And eewwwww.
Seriously.
Makes my skin crawl.

Kristin said...

Sorry, Decorno, this will be my last comment. I've completely hijacked your post.

Anon 5:50, I don't think that there isn't an obvious generational issue going on with welfare dependency. However, I believe that if there was available job training, job coaching, and the big one, job opportunities, people would be able to wean themselves off of welfare. And then there are people who really won't be able to support themselves without assistance in some form because they have honest-to-goodness disabilities.


Let's think about Bitter-Gate. Forget the emotional aftermath of Obama's phrasing, but think about what he was saying. There are forgotten communities out there, communities where industry has left them behind. My fiance came from one of them. It is in a notoriously corrupt state. His mother and sister are on welfare and both work to the best of their ability to improve their situation, but frankly, they lack the skills to obtain permanent jobs and there are disability issues. It's frustrating, but it's so. His brother and his sister-in-law support themselves through working for minimum wage at Walmart, basically the largest employer in their cluster of towns. My fiance, however, is a genius and so was able to get out of the dead-end town by obtaining education and maximizing opportunity. I don't delude myself into thinking that everyone has his brains, better yet his brains for the right money-attracting areas, that enabled him to get out of severe poverty. He's special. I'm sure there are other people he grew up with who have been able to get out of their poverty, but I don't know their story, so I can't say what it was that helped them.

I'm a social worker, too, and I work with people who are crazy, disabled, and some who could do better, like maybe work 10-15 hours a week with the help of a job coach instead of do nothing. Some of them bring home more money than I do through their combined social security, state assistance, and/or sheltered workshop paychecks. But I don't make much, either, because let's face it, there isn't much money going into human services anymore, is there? Reagan pretty much took care of all of that. And we've seen where that has gotten us. The rich have gotten richer, the poor remain poor, and the middle-class incomes have stagnated. The 90's focus on welfare-abusing mothers was an orchestrated effort for politicians to get elected. It's a wedge issue.

As for people who cheat the system, I think that people who pop out more kids to receive paychecks are rare. I've had hundreds of clients, known hundreds more, and I have only met one who sort of fits in that category (in this case, she really wanted to keep custody of her disabled children to get their disability checks; she didn't so much care about the non-disabled kids; she was pretty awful and didn't get any of them). I know people who continually have children, but that's because they're mentally ill and desperately want a child even though they can't take care of it. I do have clients who can afford to pay for their own food, but the still apply for food stamps. They qualify, so they take it. But taking the system for $14 doesn't really count in my book. After all, they do qualify.

There are solutions out there, and they cost money. Money that people don't want to spend. It costs a lot to pay for residential and vocational support to help people learn to be independent. Helping one person can cost tens of thousands more a year than the small welfare checks they receive when you factor in all of the money that goes to agencies and contractors to provide support and training. From some of the comments about welfare, it seems many would rather blame the poor for being leaches on society than take the time and effort to help them. That does no good. Not addressing the issue with real solutions will not make poverty go away.

Anon 11:38, who questions my idea that getting CPS involved is a good thing to do, I am very pro-parent, very pro-reunite the family. I don't think CPS should get involved unless there is probable cause. As much as I think CPS is needlessly meddlesome where I live, I have to admit that it does some good. For example, I had a client who killed her child. It wasn't intentional, but it was an immediate result of her actions. Because of her involvement with CPS for her second child, she was able to learn the skills to be a very good mother. Yes, the state had to pay through the nose for all of the court appointed attorneys, social workers, therapists, foster care, and court time. But if my tax-dollars can help someone change that much, then I think our society is doing something right.

Anonymous said...

I choose not to give a crap about this example. She is extreme and chosen by the media to highlight her faults. I think that Christian family lady with the candy corn teeth several years ago who did receive the bounty of the Christian-family approving public deserved derision, but didn't get it. I think this is a blip that's taking the cultural temperature - this is ok, but THIS is NOT OK. There are lesser examples of the same idiocy. People have children all the damn time who can't afford them. Oh, so this one seems mentally ill and has 8 when she already has 6, let's pick on her for a while. I see this as another cherry-picked outrage by the media. Cool off, this has nothing to do with you, and her children will probably work at Dairy Queen and the local Carting Co. but someone has to.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, What the fuck?

thebubbreport said...

Are we sure she was not going for Alanis Morrisette instead of AJ? She looks a lot closer to attaining Alanis's face.

Anonymous said...

"If you really believe that people who bilk welfare are few and far between then a whole bunch of us have some swampland to sell you.

I was a social worker and believe me, there are THOUSANDS of people abusing the welfare system. In many cases it has been going on for generations because the children grow up thinking welfare is an acceptable means of support."

Please stop making these generalizations from your experience. It is not accurate and you are implying that welfare fraud is the norm and reinforcing myths about welfare that Reagan injected into the public's conscience thrity years ago.

More than half of women on welfare stay on the rolls for less than
one year. A quarter leave within four months, and only one-third stay more than two years. Research on intergenerational welfare use has not been able to establish that daughters of welfare mothers necessarily end up on welfare
too. Some do, some do not.

Anonymous said...

I think she's a publicity whore.

pinkstilettos said...

Don't you just love it? Her face I mean.

Anonymous said...

I'm a little surprised at how visceral some of the reactions are (ppl are getting red in the face over octomom but won't bat an eye about genocide and slavery in sudan). Is she mentally unstable? Hells yeah. Do I think she's irresponsible? Of course.

But am I going to send her and her children death threats or call her vulgar names (like some ppl have)? No because I'm not crazy. You can't call the woman crazy and then say you're going to rip her uterus out b/c frankly you've got to be sick in the head to do that too (kinda gross methinks).

I pay taxes too but her family is one of millions that my taxes may or may not end up supporting. I'm more appauled at her doctor (who clearly knew no single woman is properly equipped to handle 14 kids) and the welfare system. If you're that mad about it write to your congressman and try to get this welfare system fixed.

Anywho. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not losing any sleep over octomom. As for the surgery speculation her upper lip looks diff. (edema after pregnancy?) and she got her eyebrows groomed. That said I could give a rats ass. Still entertaining to talk about though. Peace :)